Speaker: Catherine Ross, Lynda Burrell & Tihara Smith
[Music Playing]
Riaz: My mother's Dutch pot.
Jocelyn: A poster, which is a map of Barbados.
Female: My grandmother's suitcase.
Lenny: A flyer with the sound system on it.
Catherine: We all have one of those objects, don't we?
Lynda: Something so sentimental, we've had it for years.
Catherine: And losing or breaking it is not an option.
Lynda: These objects tell a story about us.
Catherine: About our lives, upbringing, and family.
Lynda: And for Caribbeans whose stories are so often left untold, we are bringing these stories to the fore.
Riaz: They're just pots on the surface level, but they're kind of loaded in history.
Lenny: These flyers would've been going back to the seventies, so it brings back great memories.
Catherine: This is Objeks & Tings.
Lynda: A podcast celebrating Caribbeans and their favourite tings.
Catherine: Episode eight: smart and stylish.
Lynda: Hello, and welcome to Objeks & Tings, the weekly show that celebrates 75 years since the Windrush docked on UK shores, I'm Lynda Burrell.
Catherine: And I'm Catherine Ross. In each episode we welcome a different guest to celebrate Caribbean culture by looking back to an important object in their life.
Lynda: So, why are we doing this? Well, me and my mum …
Catherine: That's me.
Lynda: Run Museumand, a social history and community museum that travels the UK sharing Caribbean stories.
Catherine: You'll find us in schools, churches, shopping centres, and even in parliament.
Lynda: We thought making this podcast was a natural step to go a bit further and share stories directly with you wherever you are. So, thanks for listening.
Catherine: Now, before we get this week's guest to reveal their object, let's meet them first.
[Music Playing]
Tihara: Hello, I'm Tihara Smith and I'm a fashion and product designer from London, and I create products inspired by the Caribbean and the Windrush generation.
Lynda: Ooh, a fashion designer like me. Well, not so much anymore, but I did do a fashion degree and worked as a fashion designer in New York.
Catherine: So, you did and like you, Tihara has branched out a bit from fashion design too.
Tihara: I've been making different accessories and paper products like greeting cards, art prints that have slogans and illustrations that's inspired by the Caribbean and the Windrush.
There's slogans like Keep Britain Kind, which was inspired by some of the graffiti that was when the Windrush generation came, or the slogans people say was “Keep Britain white.” So, it's kind of like a play on that so that we focus on kindness.
Lynda: I’ve got her online shop open here, I love it. I love the badges, the wrapping paper. It really has captured the spirit of the Caribbean, quite the Prezis people. I'm putting things in my basket right now; one for you, two for me.
Catherine: Well, whilst you fill up your basket, can you take a guess at what object Tihara will be talking about? It's something inspired by her time at fashion school.
Lynda: It's got to be a dress, all of the outfits she's created.
Catherine: You are getting too good at this Lynda, let's take a listen.
Tihara: The object I'm talking about today is an outfit from my graduate fashion collection that I showed at graduate fashion week in 2018.
And I chose to talk about this object because my collection was inspired by the Windrush generation. I think it really encapsulates the whole Windrush story in one outfit.
There is a white shirt that is made from vinyl tablecloth, and it looks like a crochet doily. And then over that, is a vest that's made from raffia, which is dried palm leaves, and it has knitted rib around the neckline, the armhole, and the hem, and it's hand embroidered with raffia again.
The front has the black power fist and the England lion, and the back has a slogan that says, “Black and British,” and the trousers are denim clothes. So, blue denim, and it’s styled with a pair of high knee boots, brown boots and a hat.
When I think about the Windrush generation aesthetic, I think about my granddad and the photos of him when he was younger. So, he wore really tailored suits and he always looked really smart. It was always coordinated, colourful, stylish, that's what I think of.
From the Windrush generation, I'm most inspired by I think their resilience because when they came here, they had to face a lot and to overcome a lot to allow the younger generation to have what we have today.
I feel like Windrush history and British history are taught, like they're separate things when really the story of the Windrush impacts everyone, has helped everyone and it kind of is British history. It doesn't need to be separated into black history or black Caribbean history. And it's important that everyone has an opportunity to learn about it.
After looking at my work, I hope people take away a little bit more knowledge about the Caribbean and that kind of inspiration to look deeper or to learn more about the culture, and to learn more about the Windrush generation that came here, and what they went through, and the culture that they brought here, and how it affects or it's influenced what we experience today.
Lynda: That's so true about the Windrush generation, being smart and stylish. I remember granddad Ross, he always pop styled, it was very dapper.
Catherine: Oh yeah, my dad (granddad Ross as you call him) wouldn't leave the house without wearing a suit. And if I close my eyes now, I can see him looking so suave and sophisticated.
Lynda: Yeah, totally, and Tihara is right about how British and Caribbean history has been taught in schools. It still amazes me that people don't know they're linked.
Catherine: Yes, and very strongly linked. In fact, due to the Transatlantic slave trade, it's such a shame there's still a gap in people's knowledge. As we've learned in this podcast, both cultures have inspired each other in so many different ways.
Lynda: Yes, and when you start looking, it's so obvious. For example, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise how British aesthetics have benefited from the colourful aesthetics of the Caribbean.
We really brought colour to this nation, which is something Tihara knows all too well. Colourful aesthetics are her specialty. I'm keen to delve more into her inspirations and find out where all the colour comes from.
Hello Tihara, how you doing?
Catherine: Hi.
Tihara: Hello, I'm okay. How are you?
Lynda: Really well.
Catherine: Yeah, it's lovely to meet you.
Tihara: Yeah, you too.
Lynda: Just to start then, love the collection.
Tihara: Thank you.
Lynda: I remember seeing it in the press around 2018, 2019 and it really resonated with me not just from a heritage point of view, but also as an ex-designer myself and fashion editor and stylist, it was a revelation to me.
What was the title of your final collection, and what were you trying to convey through the collection?
Tihara: When I started the collection, it was just more about my own heritage. I started working on the collection 2017, and then it was around, was it the end of 2017 or beginning of 2018 when the Windrush scandal was in the news.
So, that's when I expanded away not just my family and then expanded into looking at the Windrush as a whole. So, then that's when I decided to call the collection, the Windrush collection.
Lynda: And you really made some interesting choices in the types of materials you used for the outfit that you are talking about today. Where did the inspiration for these materials come from? Like the raffia, the vinyl, et cetera?
Tihara: So, with the raffia, that was inspired by the crafts from the Caribbean, like the straw bags and fans, the embroidered souvenirs. And I was looking at the West Indian front room, there's a book by Michael McMillan and he looked into that, all the objects and things that are in the front room.
And one of the other things was the crochet doily type things and the tablecloths, or people covering their sofas and plastic and things like that. So, then that's where the vinyl tablecloths came from.
And then the denim came from the photographs that was taken at the time, like looking at what people wore, and it has a seventies feel so like the flares and that kind of thing.
And also, there's the sofa which was kind of different because if you think about the Caribbean, people not wearing fur, but it was that kind of link that them come into the UK, and it being colder and having to change what they had to wear.
Lynda: Yes, and that was a lot of the women that when they dress as you know, we would like to dress up and look good. So, a lot of the women would save up their pay and buy a bit of sofa. When they're going out to the shibins and what have you.
And I love raffia. I still have my raffia bags that my grandmother gave me, and my father purchased for me back in the Caribbean. Absolutely love them. So, they're in a private place in my house alongside my real expensive designer bags. I have those because they're so precious to me.
But the vinyl tablecloth, I love that, my grandmother until she passed away always had a vinyl tablecloth. Even if she had a pretty embroidered cloth one underneath, she'd have the vinyl on top not to ruin the pretty embroidered one.
And that squeak when he cleaned it, it always had that funny little squeak sound. That’s what I remember. As soon as you said it, that's where my mind took me to it.
Catherine: Another thing that I remember about the Caribbean sofas that were kept in the front room, was that invariably, they were covered in a sort of plastic thing. Either they were bought with it on, or they bought special ones that they covered the set in, so you don't even stain or dirty it or whatever.
You always had a cold bottom and if you move too much, it made a squeaking sound. But yeah, we like to protect the expensive things that we buy.
Lynda: So, when it was really hot, you'd also get stuck on it.
Tihara: Yeah.
Lynda: But at the moment, I've got a really expensive sofa that I purchased recently because I've just moved home, and it's so expensive that no one's allowed to sit on it. So, I don't put plastic on it but I just — everybody knows, they come to my house, sit on the cheap chairs, not on the expensive sofa.
Tihara: Are you allowed to sit on it?
Lynda: Oh, I don't sit on it. I carry on that tradition of sofa's kept for birth, like never touch it.
Catherine: I hear this particular outfit is hanging somewhere quite special. Can you talk to us about that?
Tihara: Yeah, so the outfit I was talking about before was acquired by the Museum of London in 2021.
Lynda: Fantastic.
Tihara: Yeah, the fashion creators from the museum saw my work on Instagram and then contacted me because they were trying to make the collection more representative of London.
So, it's going to be in their new museum, I think it's opening in a few years’ time. So, that's exciting.
Catherine: Well, that's great first. I'm really, really proud of you because curators don't do things like that quite lightly, so you must be some special person.
Tihara: Oh, thank you.
Lynda: And why do you think that particular outfit was the outfit they chose?
Tihara: I feel like it had a little bit from the whole collection. So, it had the vinyl table cut off as the shirt, and then it had the raffia with the vest, and it had the denim, and then it had the statement on the back. So, I feel like it kind of encapsulated the whole thing.
Catherine: Where do you keep the rest of the collection?
Tihara: It's just in my wardrobe.
Catherine: Still an important place. If you just keep them in your wardrobe, are you ever tempted just to dress up in one of them?
Tihara: I think when I first brought the stuff home, I did sometimes just put it on, and then they have a denim jacket in the collection, and I made like a novel one of it, and I did wear it outside once. So, that was nice.
Catherine: It was really good that you wore what you designed, it shows you really believe in it, and you like making statements. Your granddad sounds like a very well-dressed man, but what was his personality like?
Tihara: He was very family-orientated. He used to take me to school and pick me up every day in primary school. So, I spent a lot of time with him.
Catherine: How sweet.
Tihara: Yeah, I'd say he was quite serious with people he didn't know. But he was quite soft with me at least. I think when my mom and her siblings were growing up, I think he was quite strict with them. But by the time he had grandchildren, he was really soft.
Lynda: I think that's a typical Windrush male thing, isn't it?
Catherine: Yeah, you mellow, and you relax, you've done the hard work raising your family and whatever. Now's the time to spoil the grandchildren, so yeah.
Lynda: I hear he had quite the story. Can you talk to us a bit about his life?
Tihara: Yeah, so he was born in Saint Lucia, Vieux Fort, and then he came to the UK when he was about 18 or 19 in 1958. And then when he arrived here, the next day he got a job in boots in Piccadilly Circus.
So, it was really quick. He said how there were so many jobs. It was like you could leave one job and get the next job the next day because there's just so many jobs going at the time.
And then while he was working there, he ended up going to work at a garage nearby. So, he was into that mechanics and things like that, and somebody saw him there and asked if he'd like to do that boxing, because he had the build for boxing. So, then he ended up doing amateur boxing in the UK and in Germany.
And then he met my grandmother. So, then they settled down and had children. So, he kind of gave up the boxing but that's when he continued to do mechanics and things.
Lynda: There’s so many parallels here with your story and ours. My mum came in ‘58, right mum?
Catherine: I did, yeah.
Lynda: So, the same year as your grandfather, and my grandfather (mum's dad) was a boxer, and both small island people. And we're from Nottingham, the home of boots. We could be twins. Oh, yeah, we’re both fashion designers. Oh, my God this is so cool.
I've got one more (not to be annoying). You know what's in the museum? And we're museum.
Catherine: And I've got one, I've got one. I did Google you once we decided to have you on the show and I found out that your grandfather came on the SS Montserrat.
Tihara: Yeah.
Catherine: I did in 1958.
Tihara: Oh, wow. So, you were-
Catherine: I could have seen him on the ship.
Tihara: Yeah.
Catherine: Oh no.
Lynda: Wow.
Tihara: That's so cool.
Lynda: And can I just ask, what are you up to at the moment?
Tihara: So, after I did my collection, I decided to make it into a business. So, I made accessories and now, I make greeting cards and pins and stationary kind of inspired by the Caribbean. So, that's what I'm working on now.
Lynda: That's really interesting. Why did you decide to go that way and not continue designing fashion?
Tihara: I think with the fashion, it's quite difficult to get started with minimal budget, I guess, and develop the collection. So, when I first started, I started with bags because you don't need to worry about sizes and things like that. So, everyone can wear the same size bag.
Lynda: Clever.
Tihara: Yeah, but then because it's like the — so I use the raffia and the hand embroidery, so it's quite time-consuming, which makes it really expensive. So, it's difficult to find the customer.
So, I thought if I started with products that everyone can access and enjoy and then one day, hopefully, I can go back into the fashion world.
Lynda: So, are you making all of the raffia pieces yourself when you're designing the bags?
Tihara: Yeah.
Lynda: Oh, wow. Like remembering your collection, actually, a beautiful wooden handle.
Tihara: Oh yeah.
Lynda: Did you make that yourself?
Tihara: So, that is a laser cut. So, I made the artwork and then sent it to be laser cut, and then I stained it and varnished it and stuff.
Lynda: I loved that. I really did like that.
Catherine: I think that's one of our aspects of style that's very Caribbean. Those handles for the bags, people in the eighties were like … you just like going down a street where black people lived because the different handles and got you excited. Because even the choice of handles and the design tells a story a bit of our culture. I loved it.
Lynda: So, what next for Tihara?
Tihara: At the moment, I've got the greeting cards, which is probably the most easiest product to make, to do designs and get them printed.
Lynda: So, what's on your greetings cards? Is it more pictures, words?
Tihara: It's mostly words, but also some illustrations. So, it's all tropical and Caribbean inspired, some Caribbean words and phrases.
Lynda: So, what sort of words and phrases are on the greeting’s cards?
Tihara: Like “irie,” like the Jamaican, there's like “we're jamming.” There's cards that just have all the island food, so it's just filled with planted and coconut, stuff like that.
Catherine: Well, what I'm impressed with is that you are trying to share Caribbean culture in many different ways. So, different kinds of people will connect with it, and I applaud that because that's what we do as a museum.
We don't just put things on shelves and in glass cabinets. When we put on a display, we try and do that through different things; not least of all our podcast, is another way of reaching our people.
So yeah, again, I say I applaud you for doing it through cards, through accessories and also, through styling as well. So, well done, you.
Tihara: Thank you. The idea was to kind of create something that people could access the Caribbean, that even if you're not from there, that in a nice fun way and then hopefully, that inspires them to look deeper into the stories and things like that.
Because a lot of people don't really know about the Windrush. There's those people that have encountered doing this, that's like, “What's the Windrush?” So, it's kind of nice that that's their first taste of it.
Catherine: And can I say one of the things that was very common in a Caribbean home were things on the wall like tea towels with all our foods and sayings and other things on it as reminders of home.
So, you're continuing in that great tradition, and I look forward to having a look at some of your pieces now.
Lynda: Tihara, we're coming to the end of our conversation, but we always like to end with a saying. Is there a saying that's maybe been passed down from your grandfather, your mother that you'd like to share with us today?
Tihara: My granddad, anyone that he loved, he just referenced like “my Tihara” or like my mum calling her “my Lorna,” so that's quite cute.
Catherine: That's cute. Yeah, very unique. I like that.
Tihara: Yeah.
Lynda: Well, thank you for sharing that with us, and thank you for joining us today for the conversation, really enjoyed that. I'm looking forward to seeing what else you come up with that's creative and good luck with the future.
Catherine: Very much so.
Tihara: Thank you for having me.
Lynda: Oh, how sweet. I really like that saying, “I love you, my Catherine.”
Catherine: I love you too my Lynda.
Lynda: This conversation has been a really nice insight into Tihara's life. Her art is really keeping the spirit of the Windrush generation alive. Keep it up, Tihara, we're immensely proud of you.
Catherine: Definitely. So, that brings us to the end of yet another episode.
[Music Playing]
Lynda: We really hope you're enjoying listening to these episodes as much as we're enjoying making them for you. If you like the show, let us know. You can leave us a review on whatever platform you are listening to us on.
Catherine: Or you could follow us on Twitter, at Museumand or on Instagram at Museumand_.
Lynda: And if you'd like to find out more about the work we do to champion Caribbean stories, visit museumand.org.
Catherine: Next week, we are speaking to Paul Henriques. I won't give away what he'll be talking about just yet, except to say that it's actually more of a ting than an object.
Lynda: Intriguing. But until next time, bye-bye.
Catherine: Bye.