Speakers: Catherine Ross, Lynda-Louise Burrell & Wendy Leocque
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Riaz: My mother's Dutch pot.
Jocelyn: A poster, which is a map of Barbados.
Female: My grandmother’s suitcase.
Lenny: A flyer with the sound system on it.
Catherine: We all have one of those objects, don't we?
Lynda: Something so sentimental. We've had it for years.
Catherine: And losing or breaking it is not an option.
Lynda: These objects tell a story about us.
Catherine: About our lives, upbringing and family.
Lynda: And for Caribbeans whose stories are often left untold, we are bringing these stories to the fore.
Riaz: They're just pots on a surface level, but they're kind of loaded in history.
Lenny: These flyers would've been going back to the 70s, so it brings back great memories.
Catherine: This is Objeks & Tings.
Lynda: A podcast celebrating Caribbeans and my favourite tings. Episode five through the pinhole.
Catherine: Hello and welcome to another episode of Objeks & Tings, the show celebrating 75 years of the Windrush generation through the objects they cherish most.
Lynda: Which basically means we hear from a different guest per episode about an object that speaks to their Caribbean heritage in one way or another.
Catherine: So far, we've heard about Dutch pots, sound systems, photographs and maps, but I have to say this week our guest is talking about an item, I think summarises the Windrush generation more than anything else, but more on that in a bit.
Lynda: Yes, because we should probably introduce ourselves first. I'm Lynda Burrell, your daughter and the creative director of the National Caribbean Heritage Museum, Museumand.
Catherine: And I am Catherine Ross, your mother and the founder, director of Museumand. Museumand is a museum without walls that shares and spread stories of Caribbeans and Caribbean culture throughout the UK.
Lynda: Yes, and if you are wondering what a museum without walls is, let me tell you, we don't have a building, we're building this, but we do have a wonderful collection and amazing exhibitions, which we take around the country to different places and spaces and share Caribbean history and heritage.
For example, we actually had a great exhibition over the Christmas period in the Caribbean Takeaway, it's an edible exhibition.
So, people came from actually, not just around Nottingham but across the UK, once they heard about it and they tried the sorts of food that the enslaved ate over Christmas. So, that was very interesting.
A bit like a Bushtucker Trial, because some of the foods were terrible. Majority of them were delicious though, and we're still eating that sort of food now today.
Catherine: And another exciting exhibition was the one that the public called Stories in a Suitcase. And it was all about the things that the Windrush generation brought with them to the UK. And it was presented in different sizes and different types of suitcases.
And actually, that exhibition is quite relevant to today's episode, but I'm not going to give anything away quite yet.
Lynda: But in summary Museumand loves making engaging content that anyone anywhere can enjoy. So, a podcast is obviously the best next step for us.
Catherine: So, now everybody knows who we are, shall we hear from today's guest?
Lynda: Yeah, go on then.
Wendy: Hello, my name is Wendy Leocque. I'm a photographic artist from Bristol, or now based in Bristol. I'm originally from Birmingham. Well, actually I always say Birmingham, but it's better known as the Midlands because I grew up in a place called Smethwick.
Lynda: Did she just say Smethwick? I've never heard of it.
Wendy: Smethwick, yeah. Some people might remember Smethwick because Malcolm X came to Smethwick when he heard about the race division and wars going on around Smethwick and came to lend his support really behind the Asian and Caribbean community.
Catherine: So, knowing what I've already told you about this object, that it's a quintessential Windrush item, can you guess what it might be, Lynda?
Lynda: Yes, I can this time I think, a suitcase.
Catherine: Finally, you got it in one. You are getting better at this Lynda, I'm proud of you. Wendy, over to you.
Wendy: My object is my grandmother's suitcase known as a grip in the Caribbean community. So, it's the one object that she came over with in 1956. And this object just carried all her possessions.
It's special to me because it's an object that my grandmother held. I feel like I can imagine her stepping off that ship in her 20s all by herself, she must have been terrified. And that's the object she kind of started her life from.
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When I thought about what I was going to do with it as a photographer, I just spent a while photographing it. And I think from that I just decided I wanted to kind of use it as something that was more than just an object that I held onto.
So, I eventually turned the suitcase into a pinhole camera and used it to take photographs of Windrush artefacts.
Pinhole photography is a slow process, so there's times where I'm kind of really on a roll with it. But even being on a roll will take sort of a week to do one image, let's say, because then I load that camera with 1216 paper.
I take the camera with me to Birmingham; I expose the paper inside the camera for about anything between 3 minutes to 35 minutes. I bring it back to Bristol, I get into a dark room, and I develop that image. So, it's a really slow process.
So, the things that I photograph with this camera are things that connect me to my grandmother.
And I remember for the first image, I wanted to take a shot of her bedroom. It's where she spent a lot of her time, especially later on when she became quite ill. And I walked in there, I didn't know how I was going to set the camera up. I didn't know, what angle I wanted to get from it.
I just kind of felt it and went with it. And I ended up propping the camera in the same position that she used to sit in bed.
I remember walking into the bedroom, and I'd see her sitting there and a big smile would appear on her face as I came around the corner. I propped the camera up in the same up seated position facing the window, so that was the view that she always had.
And took about, I think it was like a 27-minute exposure, I bought the camera back with me to Bristol and developed it.
And I remember thinking, I really hope that somethings come out, because it could be completely overexposed, you could get nothing on there. So, I was just really hoping that I got something.
And for that first image, for me it was perfection because when I look at the image, it was just the way I'd positioned the camera. So, it's tilted back slightly. So, you get this tunnelling effect towards the window and the dark room turns into this bright light at the end.
And I think that most people that have seen that image think that that's really significant. This travelling towards this light, I don't think I could have done a better job.
Lynda: Wow, so much to unpack there, excuse the pump.
Catherine: Yes, I just love it when people repurpose objects. If it's not being used anymore, why not change it into something that will be. Fixing things and repurposing them is something you see the Windrush generation do a lot.
So, it's nice to see that Wendy's continuing that tradition.
Lynda: I have to admit, when I hear about people messing with antiques and antiquey items, I'm like, “No, please don't do that, there are too facts are precious, leave them as they are.” But actually, hearing about Wendy and what she's doing, it has my seal of approval.
There's something quite poetic about a Windrush item being repurposed to take pictures of other Windrush items. I think it's pretty ingenious and I can't wait to hear more about the objects that have crossed her and her camera's path.
Hello Wendy.
Wendy: Hello.
Lynda: I know that you got in touch with us after we did a social media call out, and we just wanted to know about your object.
Wendy: I got in touch because I wanted to contribute my grandmother's grip, a suitcase, which I've now turned into a pinhole camera and I'm using to photograph, I would say Windrush artefacts, things that are related to how I see the Windrush.
Lynda: How do you identify those things? Is it just things that you remember from your childhood?
Wendy: I guess so. And I think it's things that I relate to my grandmother, and it's turned into a nice little project with my mom as well.
So, in talking to my mom about the things that I wanted to photograph, she was kind of saying to me, “Oh, you should photograph this or that because it kind of relates to Windrush.” Or it's something that she remembers as well from speaking to my grandmother.
So, the five-year trunk, for example, when people came over from the Caribbean, they only had a plan to stay in the UK for five years. They wanted to save as much as they could and then return home.
And the trunk was something that they kind of like wanted to collect all their possessions. And that's still standing in the corner of my grandmother's bedroom now, and I photograph that also.
Another item I photographed was the trilby. Because you remember all those images that you saw of people walking down the gangplank really smartly dressed?
Lynda: Definitely, yes.
Wendy: And the trilby was one of those things that stood out to me, not only because of that enduring image, but because my grandmother loved to rock a trilby. And I think she enjoyed wearing trilbies because it reminded her of her dad. To my grandmother's funeral, we all wore trilbies.
Lynda: Oh, so touching, I love that.
Wendy: Yeah. So, there were those little things that I kind of remembered or my mum reminded me of. The Caribbean Front Room was another one, because obviously everybody in the Caribbean will know how sacred the front room is.
Lynda: Wrapped in plastic.
Wendy: Yes. So, the sofas are wrapped in plastic. You can't sit on anything; you can't go in there for very long unless you're entertaining guests.
And a funny thing was, I'd gone back to my grandparent’s house actually, and I said to my granddad, because I always know where the key is left. But for this occasion, I couldn't find the key.
So, I was kind of like to my granddad, “Oh, can I have the key for the front room?” And he put his hand in his trouser pocket and handed me the key. I just laughed to myself because I was kind of like, “What are you keeping locked away in this front room?” There's nothing in there anymore.
It's just like that whole sort of, it's such a precious room, no one can go in there. But yeah, so I ended up taking the key, opening the room up and photographing that as well.
And then it's just kind of carried on from there really. I've started to go a little bit more abstract with my images, so everyone will remember the items that maybe stood in the Caribbean front room or the household. So, do you remember that glass colourful fish?
Lynda: Oh yes, we've got quite a number of those in the museum.
Wendy: So, yeah, exactly. So, I kind of did an abstract version of that. So, when you look at it initially, the way that I shut it, you can't tell that it's the fish. So, I was kind of like moving into this more abstract sort of remembering or recalling or sort of almost sort of like dream memory sequences, if you know what I mean.
So, I'm moving into a bit more abstract kind of images with the suitcase.
Lynda: I love that.
Wendy: Aw, thank you.
Lynda: Even though we have a number of those glass fish for the museum, my mother's still like … I can see her looking at me when I'm holding it as if like, “Don't drop it, don't drop it.”
Wendy: I know, yeah.
Catherine: I'm from St. Kitts and I never heard of the word grip, until I married a Jamaican. So, I know the word grip means suitcase, we just simply called it a suitcase.
And when you were talking about the grip and the things that might be in that trunk, the grip always contained things for the return back to the Caribbean, the passport, money and other legal documents. So, it was a very precious thing.
Wendy: Yeah.
Lynda: During our research at the museum, we found that people were only allowed to bring one suitcase with them. And in those days a lot of people didn't have them, so they had to borrow them. And then other people only had quite small suitcases and grips.
So, I was always thinking, how would I pack for moving to another country, what would I take? Well, even just go on holiday for a week, I'd take at least three suitcases and a travel bag. But those poor people.
So, I understand now why people only bought with the tools of their trade because they’re most people coming to work. And obviously, the trusted Bible, because majority of Caribbeans obviously are religious and if you were lucky, maybe a photograph of home, but most people didn't have that.
Could you describe it in a little bit more detail for us? Because we have obviously, again, being a museum, we have tons of them. Every one of them slightly different.
Wendy: It looks leather, so it's faux leather brown suitcase. It's got quite a sturdy handle, there's a lot of rust building up on it now. And yeah, she scratched her initials into the side of the suitcase.
Lynda: Oh, I love that. One thing I was going to ask you, what's your words of wisdom that you live by? Is there a saying, a recitation of Bible verse that to Caribbean elders passed down to you and that you still live by today?
Wendy: My nan used to say a lot of things. And it almost seemed like she was always talking in riddles because she'd say — they'd drop a saying in there. You were like, “What does that mean?” Classic one was, “Nah hang your hat too high.”
So, the other one that I do love that she did give to me, I think was, “Uno live good.” So, it was kind of like the saying, work good. It means come correct and be respectful.
And my nan was all about that, have respect for people and live good, live loving with everyone. I think that's the saying that I think I probably carry with me most that my nan said because she was that kind of person.
I remember saying at her funeral as well, there were 500 people and I stood up and I just said, “What can I tell you about my grandmother that you don't already know yourselves?” Because she treated everyone the same.
Lynda: That's lovely.
Wendy: And that was just who she was. So yeah, that would be the saying that I think I would live by, live good.
Lynda: What was your grandmother's name, I ask?
Wendy: Nits, but everyone called her Lovey.
Lynda: So, everyone could be a bit more lovey, like Lovey.
Wendy: Yes, exactly.
Lynda: Wendy, for our listeners not of Caribbean descent, could you tell us something and why in your opinion the grip is so significant?
Wendy: I think it's like you said, they came with this one item, and it was almost a metaphor for them carrying their hopes and dreams in there.
So, for me, the grip is an important item because it's almost kind of like something she can look at and think, “Look at where I came from basically,” that one item and now I have all this with my family.
And yeah, when we knew she was passing, we knew she was going and she said to me, “I have nothing to give you, I have nothing to leave you.” And I was kind of like, “Nan, don't worry about it, we're all grown now we can take care of ourselves.”
But probably without knowing that one item, I mean, what I'm doing with it now and photographing all these things that are giving me the opportunity to talk to you now and tell people this story. She gave me more than she could ever have imagined, I feel, so it's a very important item. And I'm sure my mom feels the same way about hers as well.
Lynda: Windrush 100, what would you like us to know about you, Wendy, or about the culture, but in Windrush 100 in 25 years?
Catherine: So, you will appear in the museum and what would you like the generations then to know about you?
Wendy: I guess that I still found it important enough and crucial enough to keep these stories alive and that's what I'm doing with my work with the pinhole photography. That's what I did when I decided to put together the book of the pioneers as Garfield McKenzie, who took the photos, called it of the Windrush generation. It was just to keep their stories and memories alive.
And I think, yeah, people coming to a museum and maybe seeing something that I've done, maybe that I played a small part in that, that contribution towards that bigger picture of how that generation really contributed to Britain today. I always have it in my head that they definitely put far more into this country than they ever took out of it. So, it's important to share that.
And even during the few workshops that I've done with schools, I found it quite interesting that one of the students came up to me and said, “I had no idea what Windrush was.”
I felt a little bit kind of — and he said to me, “I think this should be taught at schools because we learn about 1066 and it's not as relevant as this is, it's 75 years ago.” And I just think that I'm trying to put my bit in there to keep those stories alive and just to contribute to them in some way.
Lynda: That's wonderful, and you've certainly done that.
Catherine: And I'm thinking ahead and I'm going to feature Wendy Leocque as an example of the Windrush Creativity and Enterprise.
Wendy: Oh, thank you.
Lynda: I really enjoyed today's conversation. Mum, how does Wendy's story relate to what you already know about Caribbean traditions, whether it's related to the grip or just our culture in general?
Catherine: Well, by capturing items and artefacts using her repurpose camera, Wendy is showing that Caribbeans are a creative people who think outside the box and show an appreciation of what has gone before.
Lynda: And you could say, mum, she's gripping onto her past using her grip.
Catherine: Oh, Lynda.
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Lynda: Well, sadly, that's all we have time for. If you're enjoying the show, please do let us know.
Catherine: You can write a review on whatever platform you're listening on, or you could even send us a message on our socials.
Lynda: We are at Museumand on Instagram and at Museumand_ on Twitter.
Catherine: Next week we'll be speaking to music journalist and social media strategist Demi Bailey-Paul, about another object that symbolises the Windrush generation perfectly.
Lynda: But until next time, bye-bye.
Catherine: Bye.