Speakers: Catherine Ross, Lynda-Louise Burrell & Kenrick ‘H20’ Sandy
[Music Playing]
Riaz: My mother's Dutch pot.
Jocelyn: A poster which is a map of Barbados.
Female: My grandmother’s suitcase.
Lenny: A flyer with a sound system on it.
Catherine: We all have one of those objects, don't we?
Lynda: Something so sentimental, we've had it for years.
Catherine: And losing or breaking it is not an option.
Lynda: These objects tell a story about us.
Catherine: About our lives, upbringing, and family.
Lynda: And for Caribbeans whose stories are so often left untold, we are bringing these stories to the fore.
Riaz: They're just pots on a surface level, but they're kind of loaded in history.
Lenny: These flyers would've been going back to the seventies, so it brings back great memories.
Catherine: This is Objeks & Tings.
Lynda: A podcast celebrating Caribbeans and their favourite tings.
Catherine: Episode 12: It takes a village.
Lynda: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Objeks & Tings. And actually, our last this series.
Catherine: Oh, yes. I can't believe we're on episode 12 already. So, for those who've only just found us, welcome to the podcast that celebrates Caribbean life in the UK through objeks and tings.
Lynda: And how do we do that, you ask? Well, each week, we invite a different guest to speak about an object or ting close to their hearts.
Catherine: As this is our last episode, let's have a recap of what all the objects and tings have been.
The Dutch pot.
Lynda: The grip.
Catherine: The iron comb.
Lynda: The photograph.
Catherine: The flyer about a sound system.
Lynda: The poster of a map.
Catherine: The Windrush outfit.
Lynda: Pardner hand.
Catherine: The magazine.
Lynda: The album.
Catherine: The hip hop album.
Lynda: Yeah, that was a good one.
Catherine: And the receipt of the Windrush ticket.
Lynda: Oh, I love that.
Catherine: History, a lot of variety, objeks and tings.
Lynda: And then of course, we have today's objek or ting. But before we find out what that is, let's first find out who our guest is.
Kenrick: My name is Kenrick ‘H20’ Sandy. I am one of the co-artistic directors of hip hop dance company called Boy Blue. We're an Olivier award-winning company. We've been around since 2001. I'm also a choreographer, a teacher, and a performer.
Lynda: My niece, your granddaughter, is one of the many young people who goes to Kenrick’s dance classes. People travel from far and wide to get lessons from him because he's the best.
Catherine: I'm not surprised they travel to get the best. Because, let's face it, we Caribbeans love dancing.
Lynda: But where in the Caribbean is he from?
Kenrick: And I am a British born East London man with Grenadian heritage.
Lynda: That's cleared that up. But what is his object?
Catherine: Well, it's actually more a ting and something that sums up his work perfectly. But I'll let Kenrick explain.
Kenrick: The object that I would like to talk about is, I would say it's more of a ting. It's more of a building, it's a youth centre. That's what I want to talk about today.
A youth centre is a space for recreation. It's an afterschool club. It's a place you could play basketball and various different sports. It's an opportunity to do creative arts. It's a social space.
It's a space, if you want to have a chat with friends after school, it's a unified space. It's a space that is a neutral ground.
A lot of times when one person comes from one school, one person comes from another school, you can't bring your nonsense to the youth centre. The youth centre is a haven.
It's a space that you should be able to flourish. It's a space where, for me, constantly meeting new people who have grown to be friends, who've grown to be good friends. And that's still unconditional in my life.
It also gives you an opportunity if you need tutoring with regards to some of your subjects as well. There's opportunity to get that extra support. So, the youth centre is literally for the youth, and it's enabling them to push and progress.
There's been many times where some of them do adult education as well. Some youth centres also help with regards to feeding kids, some family units that may not be as well off. So, there's an opportunity to support the young people after school with hot dinners, and just that social impact.
So, my encounter with the youth centre has changed over the years. I started off in my late teens going there playing basketball. I didn't have the opportunity to go upstairs and see the dance. I got into it, I thought, “Oh, they're doing a bit of break dance and a bit of gymnastics, let me have a try.”
Which then gave me an opportunity to do my first ever performance. And that completely changed my life. It completely changed the way I saw things. It allowed me to mix all my different creative skills and put it into one basket, which was dance.
Now, as an older youth centre participant, I'm now able to be a volunteer at the youth centre anytime that they need extra people to be there. I do dance rehearsals at the youth centre. I play football, I do basketball there as well.
But the major thing that I really enjoy throughout the years of going to the youth centre, to me, is the social part of it. We've done a couple games nights, we've done FIFA tournaments, just the vibes and just chill and just have a conversation.
Seeing just the joy that the youth centre brings to young people just shows the need of a youth centre.
Catherine: Youth clubs, what a noble choice and so in line with who Kenrick is and what he does. I love this theme.
Lynda: Yes, he also wanted to talk about rum, another noble choice if you ask me, but he settled on youth clubs.
Catherine: Both great choices in very different ways.
Lynda: Youth clubs are a huge fixture in British Caribbean communities. But like many things associated with the arts, a lot of them are suffering from funding cuts and are being closed down.
Catherine: Yes, it's a huge shame. There's so much value in organisations that enable young people to flourish in a safe, supportive environment. Here's hope in our conversation with Kenrick can help spread the good word.
Lynda: Hello, Kenrick.
Catherine: Hi?
Kenrick: Good evening. Good evening.
Catherine: Before we start, I have to say, you are so modest. At the top of the show, you introduced yourself, but there are so many other strings to your bow. Like working with Danny Boyle on the opening ceremony of the 2012 Olympics. What was that like?
Kenrick: That was definitely a really, really good experience. Being a man from East London, good old East London, and being able to choreograph an event that happened in East London was a true honour. I felt very privileged to do that.
Working with Danny, I can actually say he is my friend. We have conversations and we're still working together now. So, it's a beautiful experience.
The amount of volunteers that we worked with, the team that I had from a Boy Blue point of view, mass movement, who were also there, they're the ones who helped to manifest the vision with the charting of the volunteers where they needed to be.
And yeah, just a general vibe was good. It was a lot of work, don't get it twisted. It was stress because obviously, there's so many components. But it was truly a great experience for me.
Lynda: I loved it. I loved watching that. It was amazing.
Kenrick: Thank you.
Lynda: And you've also worked with lots of other celebrities too, haven't you? Who else have you worked with?
Kenrick: Wow, okay. I forget my CV. I've worked with the Saturday, I've worked with Mystique. I've worked with Sugarbabes, George Michael, Beverly Knight, Oxide & Neutrino, Fergie of Black Eyed Peas, I've danced for her. Who else have I danced for?
Catherine: It's okay. You don't have to carry on, my jaws dropped already.
Lynda: Very impressive.
Catherine: Seriously so.
Lynda: I think one of the most intriguing, inspirational things that I've heard about you is that you work on the GCSE dance syllabus.
Kenrick: Yes, indeed. So, we've had a piece called Emancipation of Expressionism or short for EOE that's been in the GCSE AQA dance for about, I think it feels like it's been five to seven years now. It's the first we would say the hip hop street dance piece that's been in the GCSE dance.
We've had really good response. We've got a resource pack out as well. But yeah, for me, education is very important, especially the involvement of creativity. Sometimes with a lot of schools, they become very academic. They're just focusing on the academic side.
But for me, when it comes to creativity, your maths is involved, your English is involved, you know what I mean? Your science is involved, and it's how do you use that in order to create people to be more creative and academic at the same time?
So, the way that we teach, the way that we notate our stuff is very academic, but it's very creative. And we are also looking at how we help those with learning difficulties to understand our notation, and to help them to decipher the language of what we say. Do you know what I mean?
It's like going from French to English; how do you understand it when you're so used to someone standing in front of you and teaching you a routine? There's so many other ways of learning. And that's what us as a company, Boy Blue with education, that's what we look for.
We look to reach out to understand how we can support understanding, overstanding, and how to help people to study oneself and push the legacy.
Catherine: Can you tell me why is it called Boy Blue?
Kenrick: Oh gosh.
Lynda: One day I was feeling blue.
Kenrick: Do you know what? The most simplest way of saying it, is that basically I'm a boy and I like blue. That is it. Because at the time you had different street dance crews and hip-hop crews with these like kapow well names, you know what I mean? Next level, Blaze, Inferno.
And I was just like, “Okay, cool, Boy Blue. I'm a boy and I like blue and let the dance do the talking.” You see what I mean? Alright.
So, if you have this big name and you don't deliver with that same kind of energy, it's slightly a problem for you.
So, we thought, you know what, let's just keep it simple. Everyone's like, “What's this Boy Blue? What's all of that?” We say, “You know, let the dance do the talking.” And then you say the name again, isn’t it/ Say no more.
Lynda: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Catherine: But you know when you're a likkle boy in short pants, eh?
Kenrick: Yes.
Catherine: Did you ever think you were going to end up where you are now?
Kenrick: No, no. Likkle boy in short pants. I’m finished. I haven't had that terminology in such a long time. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Catherine: Thank you.
Kenrick: When I was younger, I was into sports, I was into acting, I was into arts, just art and design. That's what I was more into. So, when I was in sixth form, my aim was to actually a graphics designer.
So, I took on art, I did graphics, but then I got bored of graphics. I did drama instead because of the acting. And I did business studies, which I didn't do too well in because I got bored of it.
But I then started to dance in my second year of sixth form. And it was me going to the youth centre to play basketball. Because I was at the time, semi-professional footballer, and I was playing basketball as well.
And they were doing dance upstairs. So, I told my brother, my best friend, Mikey, my brother Roy, “Go upstairs because they've got dance.” Because they were doing more performing arts.
So, I went upstairs, and I started doing some of the stuff and Cat B, who was the teacher at the time, he was like, “I could see a lot of potential. We have a show coming up at Hackney Empire, would you like to do it? And do a little bit of freestyle?” And I said, “Okay, yeah. I'll have a try.”
He goes, “But you have to learn the finale routine from Sabrina, AKA LMS. And she's 11-years-old.” So, she's 11-years-old, and I was 18 at the time. So, the first teacher, yes, my first teacher was an 11-year-old.
So, for me, whenever I think about learning, I believe you can learn from anyone, because my first routine was someone younger than me.
I then went on to doing the Hackney Empire Show, which completely changed everything for me. I think my confidence, my esteem, my motivation, I want to learn more, just boosted up. So, I completely changed my course.
I finished my A levels; I was supposed to go to East Ham College and do art and design. I went to Barking College instead and did performing arts one-year, HNC. And I just went into dancing, I completely changed everything.
However, I have also made sure that I've kept my art, my acting, my athleticism, all of that involved in the dance. So, whenever I'm teaching, my artistic view is how I notate stuff, how I stage stuff. The acting side is the theatrical, the concept, the energy.
And then the athlete side is when we're training, we train like athletes, we train in order to make sure we can uphold the stage, we can uphold the quality. So, that's why when people come to Boy Blue, it's like, “Oh okay, you guys are pushing your students.”
It's like, “Yes, because this is not just about 5, 6, 7, 8, this is about dance. It's about life. If there's life changing opportunity that I had, then there's life opportunities for other people.” So, we just keep that legacy going.
Catherine: So, you've worked with all these incredible people, and you've also got an MBE. What was it like getting the honour?
Lynda: And what was the palace like?
Kenrick: Receiving the MBE, if I'm honest, was challenging. It was challenging for me because of what it stood for, which was the British Empire.
So, as a black British man, for me, I was like, “Okay, what is the reason to take this honour?” When I got the piece of paper, it was said, “This honour is for dance and the community.”
So, I had to take a moment and think about what will this honour do for the dance community and for the community itself. So, even with the friction that I had within myself, I said, “I'm going to take this for the changes that can be made in the dance community and for the community.”
So, when I told my mum about it, she was like, “Yes.” I said, “Mom, you're going to come with me.” She goes, “Yes.” I said, “We're going to go to the palace.” She was like, “Yes.” And then I brought my wife, and I brought my best friend as well.
And it was a beautiful experience because my mom was smiling, and that to me, showed that she was very proud. She could see the work that has been put in. And funny enough, I was there the same time that Victoria Beckham was getting her-
Lynda: Ooh, that's cool.
Kenrick: She might have been getting her upgrade of her honour, but I know she was there. It was very surreal being in there. It didn't feel like it was for me, but I was there.
Lynda: We're very proud of you. So, thank you for-
Kenrick: Yeah, yeah, it was interesting. Like I said, it was a struggle. But now that I've taken it, I am holding it with chest. I am walking into places with the use of this for them to understand the accolade because it's a powerful accolade in this country, and it's about making those changes and get those opportunities to speak to the right people that can create those changes.
Even I've had it for quite some time. I'm still in the process of fully understanding how this honour can serve. So, that's where I'm at. Right now, I'm in a space of understanding the servitude of this honour.
Lynda: I totally get that. And I think I feel probably the same way.
Catherine: I love that phrase. We are glad you got it and we love your reasoning about it. It will help so many other people to understand what it's all about. So, thank you.
Kenrick: Thank you.
Lynda: Let's talk about your ting today. Youth centres or youth clubs, every area used to have one. Unfortunately, today a lot of them are closing down due to lack of funding. Why do you think youth centres are so important?
Kenrick: I just think from a general community point of view and an upbringing point of view, it takes a community to bring up a child. And the youth centre is one of those spaces that enables that.
It gives parents who are working late an opportunity for the child to be somewhere safe, for them to be doing recreation. At the same time, they have afterschool clubs as well. So, you can get that support from an education point of view. I feel it brings that social confidence; you know what I mean?
When sometimes I'm seeing quite a few young people like awkward to have conversations and awkward to talk, they're very introvert, youth centres enable that openness, that conversation, that open forum. For me, it's enabled a lot of confidence in myself.
So, I feel like it can give others that same kind of energy, and you learn a lot from these things. I do now volunteer work in my youth centre, and I'm seeing a lot of young people taking roles, like they're being delegated to sort this out or do this out.
Which for them, I just feel like there's just so much more that the youth centre brings, and I can only go from my experience, but what I see right now and how it just helps progression and elevation and social impact, they're so needed.
Lynda: So, the youth club you used to go to, was it very multicultural?
Kenrick: Yes, it was. It was multicultural and that was the thing for me that's very important, is that anyone and everyone can go there. Okay, it's for this, it's for that. It's like oh, this person, that person. It was very much multicultural.
I used to go Saturday school as well to another youth centre that was predominantly African and Caribbean. It was called the African and Caribbean Centre on the Barking Road.
But when I went to Forest Gate Youth Centre, which is the main one I used to go to, multicultural. Everyone used to come there. Everyone used to vibe. If you know Forest Gate, Forest Gate is very multicultural. And yeah, the young people that go there now, again, still multicultural.
Lynda: I totally get that.
Catherine: Do any of your family members go to a youth club or youth centre?
Kenrick: Not anymore. Because everyone's just older now. But what I've organised sometimes is football on a Wednesday, which is open to everyone. My sons come and play football and sometimes, my friends, some of my dancer friends, they come as well and play football.
Something outside of the dance that we can just say, “You know what, let's all get together and let's have a jam.” And sometimes, I even organise basketball there as well. I've also done a games night there as well. Do you know what I mean?
So, anything that can bring that kind of energy, bring the old days back, I'm on it. Sometimes, I'll even take what I do in the youth centre and bring it to a park. Sometimes in the summer holidays, we will do a fun day.
We'll do rounders, we'll do other games. We'll play cards, blackjack, rummy, everything. Even bring dominoes.
For me, all of those things that I got from my heritage. Like especially, those who know dominoes, when you're playing dominoes, dominoes is a serious, serious game.
If you're playing with your uncles, oh my gosh, you're getting schooled — that if you want to talk about education, you are getting schooled during that game, all my days. So, yeah.
And they don't like it. They don't like it.
Lynda: They're not going to let kids win, are they? So, we're coming to the end of our show today and we like to usually end with a saying. Do you have a saying that you live by? It can be a family one or something you've learned in your friendship group.
Kenrick: Do you know what? From a Boy Blue point of view, I'll say one of our sayings is “Because we can.”
Lynda: Oh, yes. I like that.
Kenrick: Sometimes people are like, la, la, la, whatever, whatever. I say, because we can, that just brings that motivation. If we can do it, we do it because we can.
Lynda: I’m going to live by that one. I like that one. I thought you were going to say something like, “Leave it on the dance floor.” That's what I always say to my niece, when I'm helping her train.
Kenrick: That's sounds good.
Lynda: I say leave it on dance floors.
Kenrick: I personally wouldn't use it, myself.
Catherine: I love that saying, “Because we can.” I think it's a phrase we should be spreading throughout the Caribbean community.
It's so easy for us to feel limited by the way the media and wider society portray us. But just take Kenrick's advice on board everybody, you can do anything you want to.
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Lynda: Yes, you can. Though, I still think my sayings were good too: “Leave it on the dance floor mum. Just leave it on the dance floor.”
Catherine: Okay. Well, sadly, that's it for season one of Objeks & Tings. We really hope you've enjoyed hearing about Caribbean lives through the objeks and tings we cherish most.
Lynda: Yes. We hope you've had as much joy hearing it as we have had making it.
Catherine: If you want to keep up with us outside of the podcast, please do visit our socials.
Lynda: We are Museumand_ on Twitter, and Museumand on Instagram.
Catherine: You can also find out more about our work as a museum at museumand.org.
Lynda: So, for the last time in this series, bye-bye.
Catherine: Bye.