Speakers: Catherine Ross, Lynda-Louise Burrell, & Chris Mitchell
[Music Playing]
Riaz: My mother's Dutch pot.
Jocelyn: A poster, which is a map of Barbados.
Female: My grandmother's suitcase.
Lenny: A flyer with a sound system on it.
Catherine: We all have one of those objects, don't we?
Lynda: Something so sentimental, we've had it for years.
Catherine: And losing or breaking it is not an option.
Lynda: These objects tell a story about us.
Catherine: About our lives, upbringing, and family.
Lynda: And for Caribbeans whose stories are so often left untold, we are bringing these stories to the fore.
Riaz: They're just pots on a surface level, but they're kind of loaded in history.
Lenny: These flyers would've been going back to the seventies, so it brings back great memories.
Catherine: This is Objeks & Tings.
Lynda: A podcast celebrating Caribbeans and their favourite tings.
Catherine: Episode 11: Provision.
Hello, and welcome to Objeks & Tings, the weekly podcast celebrating Caribbean culture in the UK through the objects that people of Caribbean descent treasure most. I'm Catherine Ross.
Lynda: And I'm Lynda-Louise Burrell, Catherine's daughter. Together, we run Museumand, a social history museum celebrating Caribbean culture in the UK.
And this year, we're celebrating 75 years since the Windrush generation's arrival in Britain. Using this podcast to shine a light on the amazing things Caribbean culture has brought to the UK.
Catherine: And for the past 11 weeks now, we've been using this podcast as the space to do it. Speaking to different guests about an object they own that means something really special to them, and speaks to their Caribbean roots.
Lynda: We've heard stories about black-led magazines, Caribbean banking, even last week, about afro hair and beauty products.
Catherine: Oh, yes. We love speaking about that one.
Lynda: Yes, as beautiful women, we love beauty products.
Catherine: Yes. And this week, we've got a guest with an object unlike any we've had before. His job gives a hint at what it might be.
Chris: Hi, I'm Chris Mitchell, AKA, the Actual Factual. I'm an artist, a musician, journalist and audio producer.
Lynda: Ooh, the Actual Factual, I like it. But where did you get that name from?
Chris: So, the actual factual came from my podcast co-host Sumit Sharma. We host a podcast called Breaking Atoms, which is a hip-hop podcast. And every episode, we give ourselves AKAs from the weird to the wonderful.
And one day, he called me the Actual Factual because I have insane memory for detail and album line of notes, and I really love history and connecting dots. So, the Actual Factual stuck, and I've been called the Actual Factual ever since.
Lynda: Oh, wow. So, this is going to be music related, do you reckon?
Catherine: I hope so. Music is such a huge part of Caribbean culture. I think it’s time to explore it.
Lynda: Okay. Let's hear what object Chris has in store for us.
Chris: The object I'm going to be talking about today is my upcoming solo album titled Provision. It's an album that is very close to my heart. It's the album that I've been wanting to make for my whole life because it's a celebration of my British and Caribbean culture.
The album is called Provision because in Jamaica, provision is food from the earth. Food like yams, dumplings, vegetables, and people eat these kinds of foods for the natural benefits, and also, to provide energy before a long and hard working day.
This album is provision in music form that helps people to get through their day and life in general.
One of my favourite songs on the album is a song called Aliens. And on this song, you'll hear factual accounts from second and third generation, West Indian children about our place in Britain.
We touch on gentrification, racism, tolerance, acceptance, and what British life feels like for us.
This song is really, really special because my wife actually gave me the idea. She said, “Why don't you just write a song about what it's like to be black in Britain and just call it Aliens?” And I was like, “Yeah, that's a really good idea.”
And one of my favourite parts from the song is when I open it up and I say:
“Listen, my forefathers came to England not to see the sights, they saw a place where they could chase the taste a sweeter life instead of being …”
The reason why I really wanted to touch on that is I wanted to paint the picture of what it was like for my grandparents and my forefathers to come to this country where they were promised a better life.
One of my favourite lines from the song is,
“A Windrush influx, human and cultural cargo. Dreams, embargo, they need that bread to raise the hard dough …”
That is what I like to call a triple entendre. So, need, as in you need something, but you also need bread with your hands. Bread is another word that people use for money or cash. Hard dough is paper money, it's cash money.
Hard dough is a type of bread in the Caribbean community. It's really stodgy. It will fill you up really quickly. But it's amazing and it's often sweet. So, I really love that line “in need of bread to raise the hard dough.” I think it's probably one of my brightest moments as a writer.
Lynda: That line is so powerful. I thought double entendres were tricky enough, but Chris has gone for triple.
Catherine: Dubler entend.
Lynda: Oh, sorry, mom.
Catherine: But yes, he's very clever, isn't he? And it's so great to be able to share his music with everyone.
As I said earlier, music is so integral to our community, from Calypso singers like Lord Kitchener in the early days of the Windrush generation, through to ska and reggae.
And even now, hip-hop like Chris makes. I can't wait to hear some more about how he put his new record together and how he drawn his heritage to make it. So, let's jump right in.
Lynda: Hello, Chris?
Chris: Hello.
Catherine: Hi. How are you?
Chris: I'm doing well. How are you?
Catherine: I'm fine, thanks. And I'm really looking forward to this conversation with you. You seem to have done a bit of everything. You're an artist, a musician, audio producer. Is there anything you don't do?
Chris: That's a really good question. I don't play the guitar. I definitely don't play the guitar and I don't do vegetables. Not often, anyway, I need to fix that.
But I am a creative soul. I do many things, like you say. I'm an audio producer, musician, journalist, rapper, curry goat connoisseur, resting fan. I have my hands in many, many, many different pies.
Catherine: Alright. Could you tell us a bit about your work as a musician? Would you call yourself a rapper as well?
Chris: I call myself a rapper, and I take that title very, very proudly. I first started rapping in 1992 when I saw Kris Kross on the TV. Them being the same age as me and having the same name made me realise that I could not just be a spectator in hip-hop culture, but I could also be a contributor.
And coupled with this, my mom was the choir director at our local church, so I grew up singing in the choir. I sang lead a few times. I ended up singing at the Royal Albert Hall.
So, music is a big part of my life, but at the heart of it, I am a rapper, I am an MC, and it's something that I'm extremely proud of.
Lynda: That was really good. And I'll actually call you a cultural lyricist.
Chris: I love that. I'm going to add that to my bio, I like that.
Lynda: I've never made an album before and I would like to make an album, and if I did, I think it would be a smash hit and a banger, definitely.
Catherine: She thinks.
Chris: I agree, I agree.
Lynda: I'm not the best singer, but you know, you can do all that auto tunes and all of that. So, could you tell us about your upcoming album and how you made it?
Chris: So, the very first song recorded for the album is called Epiphany. And an epiphany is in a moment of realisation. And thr beat just spoke to me, and it made me want to tell a story about my grandmother.
I was raised by my grandmother in Kensal Rise. And she died in 2007. And on that song, I share a story that I've never shared publicly before.
That the day before she died, it was New Year's Eve. And I went out and I said to her, “I'll be back soon.” But I came back late, and then I got the call that she was sick.
And I've struggled with survivor's guilt that whole time. So, I decided to talk about it on that album.
But then as the album progressed, these themes started coming out, themes about being black and British, being a second, third generation West Indian person, and what Britain feels like for us.
And working with T-1 and Kaiser, I just felt that West Indian vibe just come out of me in a way that I felt so comfortable. It's something I've struggled with throughout my career.
As proud as I am as a Jamaican and as a West Indian, I always held back on it because I thought people wouldn't get it or it would sound forced. But in this album, it all just came out. The patois, the references, I've got a song called Kananga Water. It's just a beautiful celebration of all these experiences with a massive focus on storytelling.
So, to answer your question, a process of making an album is, it's important to have a theme. It's also important to have a sonic identity, which I've achieved by having two producers.
And it's important to say that one of the producers, T-1 actually mentored the other producer and kind of showed him the ropes in terms of how to make beats. Everyone who's heard this album has said, this is the best album you have ever made.
Lynda: Oh, wonderful.
Chris: And it's probably going to be my last one. So, it's going to be a beautiful swan song. And I'm so proud and I am excited. It's taken a long time. It's taken three years to make it. And it's the longest I've ever taken on making an album.
But when you're cooking down the Saturday soup, sometimes you have to take your time. You've got to make sure those flavours come through, the yum and the dumpling and it's got to be right.
And if it takes three hours, it takes three hours. And in this case, it's taken three years, but the meal is nearly ready.
Lynda: Definitely. Why will this possibly be your last album?
Chris: For me, when I started making music on a professional level, it was never to be a superstar. I don't particularly care for fame. I don't think I'll be good at it. I am not. I'm not going to be on the cover of GQ. I'll not be on the level of Drake, and I'm totally fine with that.
For me, I just wanted to make music that I could be proud of. And in each release, I could show a level of artistic and human growth. With this album, I feel like I've got to a point where I've said everything I need to say, and I look back at my music catalogue and I just feel … I feel so proud.
I just feel like I've got a body of work that can really stand the test of time. There’s music that I put out 10, 15 years ago that people still talk about to this day.
I'm a very spiritual person. And I just feel that the ancestors and a higher power is saying, “You've done your thing, go out with a bang,” and it's going to be a bang, I promise you that.
Lynda: That's fantastic, and I like that. I don't think we should have to keep doing something and forcing it. You went there with a purpose, with a mission, you've achieved that and you're going on to the next thing. And I think everyone should live their life like that.
So, when I hear your music, I really do hear a conscious black man of Caribbean descent. Your words have meaning, they have teachings, if you like. For me, they reflect back to the Black Caribbean experience. It all summed up in words.
And I like the fact that your words also speak to different generations. Because listening to it with my mom, because I’m really young, and she's really old (I'm not that young anymore, I have to remember that).
It really does speak to us as in the different generations. And we don't always come together and listening to music, do we?
But I love the beat. I love what you were saying. I love that it summed up my life as well. You know, being a black British person of Caribbean descent. Was that your intent?
Chris: Yes and no. I made this album for us, and I think that's a rebellious act in itself because a lot of musicians nowadays, they're trying to make music for the masses. They are trying to appeal to as many people as possible. This album is a black album, and I make no bones about it.
When we started making this album, I told everyone, I said, “This album is for me and my people, them. If someone from outside the community likes it and understands it, then that's totally fine with me.”
When Dolly Parton made the song Jolene, she was talking to Jolene directly. We were just privy to the conversation. This album is the same thing. I'm speaking to people like me, and I'm speaking to people like you.
And if people from outside the community understand it and appreciate it, then welcome, thank you for giving us your time and your ears. But this album is made by a black British man of West Indian descent. And if my people understand it and like it and love it, then I will sleep easy.
Catherine: Let me clap.
Lynda: Bravo, bravo. Thank you.
Catherine: In your song, Aliens, you wanted to paint a picture of what it was like for your grandparents to come to this country, promised a better life. Can you tell us a little bit more about their experiences?
Chris: You're going to make me cry. So, my grandparents came here in the sixties. My grandfather came here in the early sixties, I think 61. And my grandma came here in 1963.
As it was back in those days, the husband, the father, the man would come over, he would save a bit of money, and then send for his partner in this case, was my grandmother. And then my mom came in 1964, and they ended up living in South London.
My grandma would always tell me the address, 293 Milkwood Road. You know how West Indian people are like, the best story tellers are-
Catherine: Very precise, we have long memories.
Chris: Very precise. And that DNA strand has come through me because my memory is absolutely nuts. But 293 Milkwood Road, and my grandma would always share the story of these little paraffin cookers, and that they would cook on the top of the stairs.
And it was a house with a number of rooms. And my grandma and my granddad, they would share a room and people would share the cooker.
I remember a family friend by the name of Mrs. Johnson. She told me that every person in the house had their own ring on the cooker. And if someone got up early, then you can use someone else's ring. It was very, very hard for them.
My grandma was not formally educated, so she didn't necessarily have qualifications, but she graduated from the school of life with an honour’s degree.
She was a cleaner at the BBC. And just talking about it now, and being a podcast producer, doing shows for the BBC, and sometimes I walk in the BBC and I get so emotional because I remember my grandma leaving late at night to go and clean at the BBC.
And I'm now walking on those same floors that she used to sweep and clean.
Catherine: So, proud of her.
Chris: It was hard to look back and I think of their sacrifices. My granddad, a very, very, loving man, and he was the first positive example of a man I ever saw. The way he treated my grandma, in hindsight, he was very active, very, very present.
I have fond memories of his fried dumplings were incredible. We used to have church on Friday nights, and for years, I did not make it to church on Friday nights because that's the night my granddad cooked fried dumplings.
And I remember he used to cut them in half and put bacon inside them.
Lynda: My favourite.
Chris: Oh, man, it was incredible. So, yeah, I lived with my grandparents because my mom and dad lived with my grandparents whilst they were saving money to buy their place.
But what happened was I ended up staying with my grandparents because school and church were so nearby. And I was embedded in the community, and all my friends were nearby. So, yeah, I spent years at my grandma, at my granddad's place.
It's the family home. It's still there, we still own it. Even in the midst of gentrification, we still own it. We are like one of two black families on the street now.
So, I reflect on my past and I reflect on my grandparents' story and their friends, and the community. And I truly believe that we are the beneficiary generation because they sacrificed so much.
And now that we are in this position where we can do the things that they only dreamed of, it's up to us now to sacrifice so that the future generation can benefit also.
Lynda: That's so true.
Catherine: Yeah, what a lovely tribute to your grandparents. We need more of that. Well done. Thank you.
Now, we're coming towards the end of the show, and we always like to end it with a Caribbean saying or any other saying. Do you have a say in that you live by?
Chris: I've got a few. I remember my grandma said to me one day … oh my grandma, she should have been a rapper. She said to me … we were just talking about fluid friendships and how life can fluctuate, and she said, “New broom sweep, clean old broom know corners.”
When she said that to me, I said, “What do you mean?” And she basically said, “You know, new broom sweep clean, but the old brooms know the corners. The old brooms know the history. The old brooms know the stories, the old brooms know the details.”
But if there's one that I live by in recent years, it's, “Yah fi mash ants, fi know what inna dem belly.” Now, I will translate.
Lynda: Please do.
Chris: You have to crush an ant to know what's in their belly. And the translation is, sometimes in order to find out what people really feel about you, you'll find out when you've upset them or there's a disagreement.
They will tell you exactly what they feel about you. I feel that growing up often people said to me, people say things they don't mean when they're angry. And when I heard that saying that, “Yah fi mash ants fi know what inna dem belly,” that said to me, “No, sometimes people will tell you exactly what they feel about you when they are angry.”
So, I love that saying, just because it's so wild. And every time I say it, I get to tell this really cool backstory. And then when my grandma first told me, she say, “Yah fi mash ants fi know what inna dem belly.” And then she just walked off and she let me sit with it.
I was like, “Alright, alright, that's my favourite one.”
Lynda: She's totally right. And I do totally believe her. It's true. But no ants were harmed in the making of this podcast to point it out.
Chris: Absolutely, not. No, no, no.
Lynda: It's just a saying.
Chris: No animal cruelty going on here.
Lynda: Well, thank you so much for your time today and that's the end of our conversation. But remember this, your music is very, very, very good, I applaud you. But it could only be bettered if mum and I did a guest appearance, but a few bars.
I know all the right lingo and yeah, your music would be out of this world. You’ll sell a billion copies, but just leaving it there.
Chris: Let’s do it. No, let's do it. No seriously, let's do an interlude or a skit. Let's get you on the album.
Lynda: Oh, my goodness, yes.
Chris: I'm saying this publicly. Let's make it happen.
Catherine: That's lovely.
Lynda: See you guys, let’s just put it out there, put it into the universe and it'll come true.
Catherine: No, you are a very generous person and full of integrity. There aren't many people like you. I applaud you. God bless your grandma for starting that process with you.
Lynda: Doing a good job. Thank you.
Catherine: Thank you.
Chris: Thank you for having me.
Lynda: I love that saying from Chris, it's a kind of no-nonsense phrase that Caribbean grandmas are the best at. You speak your mind when you are angry, don't you, mum? Well, you have to be really angry.
Catherine: Me, I'm never angry, as you know.
Lynda: Yeah, right.
Catherine: And on that note, that's all we have time for today, except to say Chris's album, Provision is out early 2024. And you'll be able to find it on Spotify.
[Music Playing]
Lynda: Next week, we're ending the series.
Catherine: Oh no.
Lynda: With a bang, with dance choreographer, Kenrick Sandy.
Catherine: Kenrick will be talking about something a lot of young Caribbeans enjoy and older Caribbeans remember fondly.
Lynda: But until next time, bye-bye.
Catherine: Bye.